Lalique chose rum for their bottles

For me, the definition of premium rum, is St. Lucian 1931 (i know they import cane/molasses from Guyana, only their agricole is theirs and is only reserved for blends). But it already has a magnificent bottle. I haven't tried Dictador yet, but the shop which sold me Chairman's Reserve 1931, has 1 last Dictador Insolent XO, so that might actually be my next purchase. I never fell for bottle design, marketing tricks, or looks before smell&taste. Price is also not the most indicative factor in my books, either. Lots of sugarbombs are expensive and inside extravagant bottles, at that. El Dorado was okay for me, but nothing to get crazy about and i certainly would never fork over 850 bucks for 25y, or 6,000 bucks for the 50y. I'd like to bet my money on high quality, no additive brands; Clement, Rhum J.M, St. Lucia, Foursquare, hampden, worthy park, Appleton Estate etc.

I don't think that Dictador will become more expensive than Demerara. But they are on the right way in the premium market. Demerara has the most diverse history. But their current bottlings are becoming less and less interesting. It doesn't change the fact that the old Velier bottlings will always be in demand. And there are still some independent bottlers with great stuff in their stocks. Dictador has released the Wixarika collection, which is way too expensive to be interesting for collectors. Their premium bottlings like "two masters" are interesting but diluted, they have not yet realized that connoisseurs ​are asking for cask strength. But maybe they don't want to serve the connoisseurs either. This is a small market that brings more reputation than income. See the reputation of Bacardi, but look at their income. Their decisions are overall not bad, they have a good variation of products and they have also a unique distillery character. They have a copper pot stills and column stills which is not bad. But apart from this information, we don't know much about the Distillery. I tried to find some pictures of the distillery but found nothing, it's over 100y old. They should provide more information about their production like Foursquare for example. The new bottlings moved from solera to full aged, this was also a good decision. But for me the new bottlings are behind the old one. I'm still searching for some old Dictador bottles. I know some lovers of Dictador, Panama rums like Origenes 8, 18, 30, also some lovers of Haiti rums, but the overall interest among collectors is not that high yet. I don't know any collector of Dictador rum. Hampden is on a good way to satisfy the passion for collecting with Hampden Birds, Great House release or with their yellow release. Also the Habitation Velier Hampden releases are in a good demand. I don't have much knowledge about the agricole market but there are also some interesting rhums from Neisson or Savanna. Caroni will remain on the first place, there are enough bottlings to satisfy the collectors in mid to top price range. Demerara will remain with the Velier bottlings also in the top range. Then we will see some newcommers in the top range like Hampden, Foursquare, Chairman's and maybe Neisson, Karukera, Savanna, Nine Leaves or Dictador. I see some potential for Dictador, but I think there are more interesting distilleries out there.

I think there are different types of "premium" rum. There are the "hype" rums, with x-thousands of bottles produced and a good marketing like the El Dorado Rare Collection or others high pricers. Further on the „show off" rum, like the Dictador you present or the Havana Club Maximo Extra Anejo, the Angostura Legacy and many more. Or the " oh I am so seldom, I am a premium" rum, like the most independent bottlers, Velier, Samaroli, Cadenhead's and more. In my opinion, Dictador is already a premium brand, the XO's, best of, 2 Masters.... I think old rums from old brands are always in the lead, cask strength for sure, single cask not necessary but helpfully, not thousands of bottles produced is a good attribute. The bottlings from Velier or Samaroli sems to be nice collector items, special from Guyana and Jamaica. Yes, Caroni will never be beaten. (But I was surprised when I saw that a Diplomatico 2001 has more than quadrupled the price at an auction.) All the Millésime Agricole will be a nice invest for the future (in 50 years), Trois Rivières, Clément, J.M, Courcelles, Bielle..... Don't waste your money for rums with nice and expensive packing, for sure nice to taste, but to own...?

Ok guys, I'm sorry I wasn't precise enough. Of course I don't mean that a nice bottle is enough to make a rum "premium". I wanted to share the news about this bottling. For me it was meaningful, that rum, previously considered as a less "premium" spirit than whisky or others has joined the lalique club, which means for me that it was recognized as "premium" spirit by some people. I believe such events help to change how ordinary people think about rum and contribute in the development of the rum market. I consider it a kind of milestone. On the other hand, I think rum market gets deteriorated by low transparency and artificial spicings in spiced rums. I believe the same happens to the whisky market because of honey or apple flavored whisky with artificial origin.

kudzey, don't worry, I think we understand you. All the rum fans here on the discussion know that rum is already a premium drink, but we are a small community. The most people ask: do you drink rum? That drink you mix with coke? Bacardi? And then you give them a taste of "beginners rum" like DRE, Zacapa or Plantation XO and they will look at you like from another planet. So, thanks for the information, the word should know that rum is premium!!! I think there’s place for all drinks, with fruits, flavours, spices and more, but it should be declared properly.

https://rumauctioneer.com/lot/1224/dictador-1978-abyss-40-year-old?s=nosession Have you seen this one? Rum is getting more expensive every year, that alone shows that it's moving into the premium segment. It's not a good thing for us. The bottlings are getting younger and more expensive. Investors can be happy. Although there are much better investment opportunities. Even if there are 3,000 bottles of an interesting rum, it's sold out in a few hours. Hampden Great House 2019 was available for months, not many people were interested. Hampden 2020 was sold out in a day. What does that tell us? I would be happy if the whisky collectors would stay in their area. We don't need this madness with rum. Unfortunately, that's exactly where we're moving. Tomorrow Sassafras will be released in Germany, the madness will spread again and I will take part. Hope to get some bottles. I mean € 180 for a bottle and you have to be happy to get one. This must be premium.

There was yesterday a discussion on FB about the aging statements, one member wrote: "Read up on the Dictador brand. They're very secretive and have been to known to be quite deceptive about the things they do. It seems as though nobody knows what's in these bottles, how the stuff is made, how it's aged or for how long." There are concerns among connoisseurs about the brand.

Vomi, Yeah, Dictador Abyss had been my object of esthetical desire for long but it's beyond my price range for just collecting it. I also believe other rums are better for investment and selling them one day. I'm not sure how I define my attitude towards price and demand rise. Obviously I don't like when I can't afford a given bottle but simultaneously I have some basic knowledge and maybe I can profit from this market. Thanks for your comments on Dictator rums, I hope they will increase clarity soon. Which fb group has these interesting discussions?

Sure you can make money with rum or whisky, it's easy, just buy some bottles and sell them in a few years. But it's easier with stocks or crypto currencies right now. It was in the "Rum Collectors" group under a bottle of Dictador 1978.

vomi, your damn right, rum is getting more expensive every year, it's not a good thing for us. But that's one side of the medal. The other side is, that it is possible to buy hundreds of gorges and outstanding rums nowadays. Back in the mid '90 there was nearly no sipable rum available here in Switzerland (I don't know how it was in other parts of the world), I always took a nice bottle from Caribbean vacation with me. Btw. did you get a bottle of Sassafras? Rum is the better invest then crypto, you can't drink crypto !!! ;-)

Rene, it was the same in Germany, Rumundco was founded because there was no supply and it was very hard to buy a simple Zacapa. It was hard to get a Sassafras. Almost all rum drinkers knew it was offered at 10 a.m at Rumundco. At 10 there was no Sassafras in the search. At 10:04 it was online but without stock (sold out message). At 10:07 I saw 4 bottles and added one to the basket (there was a limit of 1 bottle). I went to the checkout, as soon as I returned from the PayPal site I got the message, that this product is not available. I found it in another store in the afternoon and bought three bottles. I hope they will be shipped and not canceled.😄 But you can buy rum with crypto, they are rising very fast right now.

Are you sure it is Lalique choosing the rum, or rather the rum choosing Lalique? Personally I am happy with a standard bottle if it is going to be cheaper. I've just recently bottled a whisky up, and the decanters cost over GBP250/USD325 each. Doesn't make the enjoyment of the spirit any more.

vomi, I see, you get your bottles of FS Sassafras and you are happy with.

Oh yes, a great Foursquare. Better than I thought. I didn't expect it to be that balanced. It could be a little better if it had more heavy flavors. But on the other hand it is already dry in the middle. I will taste it again in some weeks, after some evaporation. Maybe it will get a little better. Congratulations to your 400th rating, I love this caroni, it's a great rum for it's price.

Thanks, yes, a really pleasant Caroni indeed. Yea, taste it later again and it will taste better for sure, I have to do the same with the Caroni, I am already looking forward to it.