Flippers, love-hate relationship


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vomi1011 avatar image
vomi1011 🇩🇪 | 403 ratings Author Posted 26 Jan '21

Regarding to the following article "Flippers have become a sort of personal pet hate". http://thelonecaner.com/opinion-flipping/ Almost all hate flippers, but if everyone would drink the rum they buy, would you ever get a rum bottle you want if you missed it at the release? We should also not forget, that some online shops also buying and selling rums just like flippers. I've bought a lot of rums from flippers and always paid fair prices. If someone pays excessive prices, it is their own fault. I'll wait for the flipper to lower the price. It's always win-win, I get a rum that is no longer available and the flipper a few more bucks.
Pirate avatar image
Pirate 🇬🇷 | 30 ratings Replied 26 Jan '21

I don't have a problem with flippers and auctioneers, so long as they do not create artificial shortage on specific items and pimp out a product for multiple times its initial price. What i'd like to see though, is distilleries accepting orders and shipping worldwide! Even cavas and winestores abuse the consumer hard, as i discussed concerning Appleton 21, before (bought at 87 euros, most shops sell it for 136). Even wine-searcher is demanding a subscription, in order to allow me view stores that sell what i need! And legislation hinders the rum-thirsty adventurer, by prohibiting a country/state import or export x/y/z items. Damn.
Stefan Persson avatar image
Stefan Persson (PREMIUM) 🇸🇪 | 507 ratings Replied 26 Jan '21

Probably there would be more people that could get a limited release if the flippers didn’t buy 25 bottles or more each. On the other hand I avoid independent bottlers of several reasons, one is that I think that many of their bottles are overpriced already from the beginning. Vomi, you’re completely right about that it’s ones and everyone’s fault if they pay overpriced rum. I always says that before you decide to buy or bid, decide how much you are willing to pay and don’t forget to take eventual fees and delivery costs into account. I quite often bid and sometimes win the bidding on Catawiki. I have so far been earning on every purchase compared to web shop prices, but as I wrote above it’s necessary to check the delivery price cause quite often it’s around €40. Pirate, Try wine searcher country by country, that will probably give you more hits than searching Europe. Another way is to google the rum you’re interested in and check the webshops one by one, that’s the best way if you want best price, even if it takes longer time. I have done this for a while and now know which of the shops that are cheapest of those that’s delivering to Sweden.
TO
Toni 🇩🇪 | 36 ratings Replied 27 Jan '21

As someone who studied economics I would tell that flippers are either good nor bad. It depends whether they know their stuff or not. They take good decisions and risks for us, store, distribute and lend us some money - in the good case when they know what they do. In the bad case they go with the hypes and exaggerate market prices even for mediocre rums and send false signals to the producers. At this point it is up to us not to go for it and not to pay.
Stefan Persson avatar image
Stefan Persson (PREMIUM) 🇸🇪 | 507 ratings Replied 27 Jan '21

Toni, I wouldn’t say that they lend us money, even if I understand how you mean and that it’s correct in economics terms. For common people cause their behaviour just higher prices. Flippers are in this business just to earn money and both flippers and some independent bottlers causes prices to rise. I think the trend is clear as now also producers are increasingly starting to sell expensive limited editions that become expensive just because they are published in limited numbers and it is likely that the content does not always match the price. The only way to deal with the problem is to stop feeding this business. Then prices will fall, which will benefit everyone except those living on this obscure businesses.
TO
Toni 🇩🇪 | 36 ratings Replied 27 Jan '21

@Stefan "The only way to deal with the problem is to stop feeding this business. Then prices will fall, which will benefit everyone except those living on this obscure businesses. " I think it wont be as easy as this. The prices will rise no matter what for different reasons (inflation, spekulation, premiumisation, world population and so on). And it is not only up to the real demand unfortunately. E.g. real estate prices exploded in the last decade because of low interest rates not because of the increase of demand. The same can happen to collectible rum. And you know what, for some rum i am really happy to see better/higher prices. But i dont want this to become a mad house where mediocre bottles start at 150€. There must be a sane way through this. And this is of course us not paying for mediocre hyped stuff.
Stefan Persson avatar image
Stefan Persson (PREMIUM) 🇸🇪 | 507 ratings Replied 27 Jan '21

Toni, I believe we are more or less on speaking terms. There are of course some factors that we can’t affect, inflation etc. When I talk about price falls, I mean in relative terms. However, I’m not that stupid that I think there will be some change as there are always buyers who are willing to pay if they think they can make money out of it, and that what I dislike. But one thing I can promise you, I will not feed them. I have never bought bottles for too high prices. I bid now and then at Catawiki, but I always check the webshop prices first and take the sellers delivery prices into account. By the way I found a new way of selling in some Italian wepshops. They limited the purchase to just one bottle when availability was limited, surprise surprise. Another great thing that happened quite recently is that Hampden now sell some of their rum under own label to reasonable prices, so now there’s no need to buy Veliers expensive Hampden bottlings anymore.
Mr. Rumantic avatar image
Mr. Rumantic 🇩🇪 | 296 ratings Replied 27 Jan '21

If they want, shops can sell only one or two bottles per customer. Have seen that on Rum & Co. That could be a way to go. Also I think those who buy rum for so much money are feeding the market. I have a price limit. That helps searching new brands. I like having a good bottle of rum most people don't even know of. I think independend bottlers are quite importand because they deliver a lot of Cask Strength rum from brands we normaly don't get it from. They often deliver pure rum with no filtration and no colouring. And i guess because they have to buy the rum first and pay the shipment the price is a little higher. Rum Nation, Rum Club, Flensburg and Velier for example have very interesting and high quality rums. Of course not all great. But they keep it interesting. Has someone bought rum on eBay? Don't know if i want to try it.
Stefan Persson avatar image
Stefan Persson (PREMIUM) 🇸🇪 | 507 ratings Replied 27 Jan '21

Romantic, Yes, the independent bottlers sells often very good and special rum, but I think they oftenly is too expensive. If I want pot still rum I buy rum from Worthy Parks or Hampdens own range and if I want Navy rum I buy Pusser’s. About EBay, Yes, I have made a couple of good purchases from there. For example one bottle of English Harbour Extra Old for just €60. The only one that’s for sale right now on the web costs over €250. I have also bought two 1821 from Habitation Bellevue for around half the price at webshops. The good thing with EBay is that it’s possible to contact the seller and bargaining, but as always is my advice to check prices at webshops first and take the delivery costs into account. Auctions at EBay also often ends up at quite fair prices, cause these sellers are more keen to sell at any price.
Paul B avatar image
Paul B 🇺🇸 | 472 ratings Replied 27 Jan '21

I always thought that Flipper was the name of a dolphin until I read this posting, so I am now posting as a Hoarder. Twelve days ago, I returned from Florida with a rum that I had not tried, and it was truly incredible (and cheap to top it off!). Since I really did not want to go back to Florida for various reasons, I tried to get my local liquor store to order a case for me. The crazy alcohol laws of each state would not allow them to do this for me. This rum is only sold in Florida. Being one absolutely determined SOB to get my hands on more bottles, I drove back to Florida four days ago. I told myself in advance that I would get six more bottles, if they had that many. The first store had four, so I told the clerk that I was buying out all of his stock. He said that was perfectly fine. I would have gladly paid double for the going rate, but these are very rare bargains indeed! It looked like I could have been a flipper, but I was clearly not. These rums are too cheap to appeal to flippers and too expensive to appeal to weekend drunks. The next store was about another 40 miles further away. Lo and behold, I could have had more than a dozen if I wanted them all, so I bought the last two on my wish list of six. Mission accomplished. It will be a VERY long time before I go back to Florida, but I now know where to get more when these six bottles finally run out. And if someone offered me a million dollars for one bottle, I would politely refuse! Oh yes, what is this rum? You will have to look up my recent reviews and then visit their web page to find a list of places to order it from, if the laws allow you to do so. This rum is located to the left of Appleton 21 on the second row of my cabinet. And as most of you know me, I never provide links.
Mr. Rumantic avatar image
Mr. Rumantic 🇩🇪 | 296 ratings Replied 27 Jan '21

@Steffan: thank you very much for the answer. I think i will try it. A bottle of Black Tot 50th Anniversary was sold for under 100Euros on eBay last week. Next time i will try my luck. And yes. I guess some Velier Rums are pricy. @Paul: I thought the same with Flipper. First the dolphin and my next thought was the Band. I was like... wow... Flippers are rum nerds...🤣🤣 I never stop learning here.
Paul B avatar image
Paul B 🇺🇸 | 472 ratings Replied 27 Jan '21

Mr Rumantic: Actually, over here Flippers are those who buy dilapidated houses for dirt cheap, fix them up tremendously, and then sell them for a huge profit. But that is an awful lot of work and I have known people who got stock with the renovated house and could not sell it. Flippers for rums only make the effort of going to buy as many bottles as they can, which is more effort than being a position trader in the stock market. However, I just could not resist the dolphin name reference!!!
Mr. Rumantic avatar image
Mr. Rumantic 🇩🇪 | 296 ratings Replied 27 Jan '21

KU
kudzey 🇵🇱 | 38 ratings Replied 30 Jan '21

On the other hand, flippers serve as time freezers. Asking ridiculous prices sometimes means long time before the bottle is sold. I had no idea about rum in the age of Velier Demerara, but, thanks to flippers I can still try some because I see these rums available online (recently spotted Skeldon 1973 in a Hongkongeese online shop, https://distilia.com/product/skeldon-1973-full-proof/ ). And yes, the price is off-putting but I still have a chance to try this rum. If the price was low, it'd have been sold off years ago. I believe they have positive impact in the rum market.