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There really needs to be a separate classification for collectible rums


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Paul B (PREMIUM)

Posted 29 Dec '20 from United States with 358 ratings

First off, I no longer collect anything. Secondly, many of the latest reviews on here are for collectible rums that are damn near impossible to find or can only be obtained from auctions. This does not address the average rum drinker. Sure, many of these reviews are quite interesting, especially when admitting that some taste like rubber and cost a small fortune. Never be afraid to admit when you have been ripped off!!!

As for me, I have reviewed 32 rums costing more than $50 US in my three years on this site. At this price, I would expect most to rate as an 8 or higher. However, only 11 rated higher than a 7, 10 rated as a 7, and 11 rated below a 7. This is truly pathetic! I admitted whenever I got ripped off and my one ounce pour of Appleton 21 at a bar a few years ago inspired me to put a strict limit for each new bottle at $120 US.

So basically, the collectible rums should be separated from all of the rest, no matter what they taste like. There could be sub categories such as Collectibe Demeraras, Collectible Agricoles, or whatever. I cannot even surmise how many different varieties of Collectible Rums are out there. And I am sure that the collectors on this site would be more than happy to help Andy reclassify drinking rums from Collectible Rums.

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vomi1011

From Germany with 280 ratings Replied 30 Dec '20

This separation would split modern rum from the traditional one.
If there are more reviews of expensive rum, it means there is more demand for it and we could expect more reviews for such rums in the future.
What would be the benefits of this separation?

Rubber is an aroma of heavy (pot still) and aged rum, it also often occurs in combination with sherry finish (Unhiq XO or Quorhum 30).
It's not a bad aroma, but a desirable one.

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Paul B (PREMIUM)

From United States with 358 ratings Replied 30 Dec '20

vomi1011:

The benefits of separation is that collectors could immediately go to only those rums that they are looking to invest in. The regular rum drinkers could also use this tool to weed out the ones that are like looking for a needle in a haystack. Granted, looking at yet another review of the five most popular rums on this site to add to the thousands already posted can become quite boring. However, these top five popular rums do serve a purpose. If someone hates any one of them, simply find another reviewer who also hates that rum and has similar tastes. This may wind up guiding any new purchases based upon similar tastes. By the way, the only one of those rums that I still buy every now and then is Plantation XO 20th Anniversary, mainly because of it's barely tolerable added sugar.

As for rubber being a desirable aroma, you have GOT to be kidding!!!!! I tried one Hampden and never again! It was not the worst rum that I ever tried, but my 5 rating for a $50 bottle? I was basically ripped off.

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martin jeppesen

From Denmark with 246 ratings Replied 30 Dec '20

Paul

“Rubber” is one of my favorite tasting notes. I will gladly pay good money for it. People’s preferences are different. Why assume that people aren’t honest when they express enthusiasn towards rum with fx. this note? It’s absolutely fair that you dont like it personally.

Vomi I agree with you on the expensive rum review’s, there’s a growing trend towards this market, at least in Denmark, but also Europe as a whole it seems. I cant make any qualified assumptions regarding this on the us market, but under any circumstance I have a bit of a hard time seeing why this kinda rum should be seperated from more standard offerings.

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VikingXO

From Denmark with 127 ratings Replied 30 Dec '20

@vomi1011 @Martin Jeppesen.

I totally agree with you. It gives no meaning at all to separate any taste / rum from the rest. Whenever if it’s a sweet rum, Agricole or Jamaican style. It’s individual what People like. I used to love sweet or oversweet rums to begin with, but with time my interest and tasting notes has changed. Now I prefer rums that stands out on it’s own unique way. Hampden and Savanna Grand Arome is for me much more interesting than sweet spanish rums.

I think it’s important that you respect People’s choices, otherwise there a no meaning with a rum Forum.

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vomi1011

From Germany with 280 ratings Replied 30 Dec '20

@Paul
Rubber, smoke, leather, tar, earth/wet barrel, medical notes are somewhat rarer and more intense aromas, you don't have to like them, but you shouldn't devalue them.
It's like whisky with the smoke and the peat. Many connoisseurs like that, because it makes the taste more intense and complex. The finish is also much longer with such aromas.
I don't think you got ripped off. You got a rum that doesn't suit your taste and your expectation did not match with the selected rum.
Hampden is already one of the best distilleries in the world. Over the next few years, the prices for Hampden will continue to rise and the popularity will continue to grow.
We saw it already at the Hampden bird series.
Hampden cannot be understood immediately. This rum is extreme and requires experience.

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Pirate

From Greece with 29 ratings Replied 30 Dec '20

Why separate? Adding a simple tag next to the product in question, like "collectible"/"rare", wouldn't work? Categorizing is always nice though and helps somebody identify, rate and pursue products, more effectively!

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Paul B (PREMIUM)

From United States with 358 ratings Replied 30 Dec '20

Pirate:

Your suggestion is the best yet!!!! It should also appeal to everyone. No easy feat.

vomi1011:

In my single malt scotch days, I craved peated Islay scotches after only a few months. To put these fine whiskies in the same class as Hampden rums is unthinkable. I bought my one bottle of Hampden from a small specialty liquor store last year. It has now made it to a popular high volume liquor store. Well, the owner stuck his tag under the bottle to say how good it was. I have fallen for these tags a few times. Basically, the tag should really read, "Buy me because I am not selling!"

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Mr. Rumantic

From Germany with 68 ratings Replied 30 Dec '20

Hi everyone... First I have to say that I think it is good how this is discussed in a civilised way. Love my fellow rum drinkers 😉 Although individual brands should not be judged in this discussion. It's all a matter of taste. Personally, I am one of those people who are willing to pay some extra money for real craftsmanship. I prefer that to mass production.

I think it is not a good idea to make collectibles easily recognizable. The hunt and the research should be part of the game. In addition, it would be very easy for individuals to simply invest money just to own rare rums. And RumRatings should be all about taste and opinions.

And who decides which is rare!? All limited editions? Annual bottlings? The less categories there are the more everyone hast to make there own opinion. I read a lot of reviews here every day and often don't agree. But this is not a bad thing. But would be cool to be able to answer reviews.

Personally, I find it hard to review rums for mixing. This may require a cabinet of its own. Overall, it would be cool if the arrangement of the bottles would be free. And inserting pictures of bottles yourself would also be good. Have very many with no pic. The administrator could control and release them.

Thank you all for sharing and hope you stay healthy.

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VikingXO

From Denmark with 127 ratings Replied 30 Dec '20

Couldn’t write it better myself Mr. Rumantic. Cheers!

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Andy (PREMIUM)

From United States with 110 ratings Replied 30 Dec '20

Paul - could you elaborate on what you mean by 'collectible' rums? The easy part of RR is creating a new data point related to each rum (eg type, location, country, etc) - the hard part is how to make the data point both easy to understand what it means and then gather the data itself.

If for example collectible is defined as 'not continuously produced', then we could create a tag like a 'Limited Edition' and for each rum add a yes/no. Maybe if a specific year is associated with a rum then it's by default limited edition since it's only that year?

If instead collectible is a production limited to a certain number of bottles (for example 500) then could also be a tag, but I'm not sure what the name would be to be easily understandable. It might also be tough to collect the data.

Open to ideas what makes the most sense in terms of easy to understand and get the data, happy to add another data point to the database :)

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Mr. Rumantic

From Germany with 68 ratings Replied 30 Dec '20

Hi guy's. On last reply. Still don't get the value of it, other than knowing it will become an collectors item one day and that i should buy it fast because it could be sold out.

I would like some other options in terms of the taste:

- Overproof/ Cask Strength or Drinking Strenght
- What Casks were used like Bourbon, Virgin Oak, (...)
- Single Estate or Independent bottler
- Sugar Test hast been done with g/l

Just examples. Don't think the idea in this discuss is pointless. It just has no value in deciding if i like the rum. 🤔 and yes... i love my limited editions 😅😉

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Paul B (PREMIUM)

From United States with 358 ratings Replied 30 Dec '20

Andy:

"Collectible" basically means No Longer Produced and is expected to go up in value. The best example of these rums are from Caroni because the company went out of business almost 30 years ago. What remains is going for premium prices from independent bottlers. I would have to drive 800 miles to buy a 20 Year Caroni to the tune of $300 US. There is no way on earth I would do such a thing.

On the other hand, there are current Limited Editions such as Foursquare Exceptional Cask Series. These are already expensive and many are expected to go up in value when they are soon gone.

Ones like the 2005 and 2007 Don Q rums are not collectible. They are certainly limited editions, but almost no one would invest in these. I don't collect or invest because I drink my rums and adjust my reviews as each bottle slowly disappears. Don Q has also stopped producing their Anejo and replaced them with their new 7 Year. So does this make Don Q Anejo a Limited Edition and "collectible"? Good gosh no! They are no longer produced and it's replacement costs more and tastes almost the same. Another money grab.

So, I must admit that "collectible" is a bad word. No Longer Produced and Limited Edition are two of the better terms to describe them.

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Mr. Rumantic

From Germany with 68 ratings Replied 30 Dec '20

Can i Interfere one last time. I dig it and agree. Collectible is realy a little subjective. I want to try a Caroni but i don't want to spend 230€ for a bottle from Bristol. And i also never bought a rum to collect it. Still i simply think taste is more importend than knowing it is limited.

@Andy: I guess it can be done both and much more, so let me say thanks for all the good work.

@ All: It is nice chatting about rum related stuff.

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Paul B (PREMIUM)

From United States with 358 ratings Replied 30 Dec '20

Mr Rumantic:

Don't ever assume that you are interfering in this discussion as your comments are always welcome!!!! Peace and love in 2021, especially after the January 20th world wide celebration!!!

I was only trying to separate the rum collectors from the rum drinkers, and so far in this discussion, I have got nothing but backlash. So be it. I can only assume that European rum tastes are extremely different than USA rum tastes. Europe must now be more on lock down than the USA, which increases boredom and discussion responses. One needs to seriously consider this fact when browsing through all of the reviews on here.

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Alaska Joe

From United States with 38 ratings Replied 30 Dec '20

Paul, I’ve been patiently waiting for a chance to comment kind of like the outside partner in a Big Time Wrestling Tag Team match... my hand just got tagged and I’m jumping in the ring!
You actually poo-pooed some reviews you felt should be in a separate category because they were either hard for you to find or too expensive for you to buy. Then you gave a half hearted insult to those who drink those rum as..... The fox saying the grapes he couldn’t reach must be sour.
The masses didn’t seem to appreciate those comments and viola! Everybody has different tastes and budgets and judge not, less you be judged. The challenges and beauty of Rum, ( like people ) are the subtle differences that make it unique. That’s it. Instead of making all these different categories, one just needs to read each review with a grain of salt and take it for what it is.... One man ( or woman’s ) opinion. Like other parts of ones body, some are better than others.
I enjoy unique and hard to find rums, you don’t. BFD.
Thanks to everyone for such grace and intellect while responding to this and all comments. It’s important to remember that we can agree to disagree without being disagreeable!

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Stefan Persson (PREMIUM)

From Sweden with 198 ratings Replied 30 Dec '20

You who have read my previous discussion posts know that I try as much as possible to avoid so-called independent bottlers, because of several reasons.
I have a number of limited editions, but I will never buy a limited edition that cost several of hundred € released in just a few hundred to keep the price up. I'm sure I would like them but I would never pay them to these high prices or buy rum for speculative purposes. I buy rum to drink it even that some bottles has been on my shelf for some time. I have for example 6 bottles of English Harbour 1981 but none of them are gonna be sold.
Very few men with a normal income buys that kind of rum to drink it up. Either you buy it for speculative purposes (just to check auction sites) or to drink it in closed company.
But I don’t judge anyone it’s up to everyone in which way they want to live or develop their rum interest, but I will not help them to increase the prices.
PS. My price limit is right now 200€, so if I run into one of the highly recommended limited editions I maybe buy it. DS.

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kudzey (TASTING CLUB)

From Poland with 13 ratings Replied 31 Dec '20

Going back to the classification topic, I have always thought the more information, the better. I think searchig filters from the rumauctioneer can be a good inspiration, the question of collectible rums can be solved by adding options like "status of the distillery", "price" (I'd love to see the price filter in the searching engine but I know it's difficult) "independent bottler" or "limited edition".

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Andy (PREMIUM)

From United States with 110 ratings Replied 1 Jan '21

With this being a new year, after what was certainly the craziest year in my life (and certainly many others), I thought it might be time for a new beginning and fresh start. So for the first time in 9 years, I deleted a comment... actually, many of them.

I love reading these discussions and the different opinions shared, but (with my ultra-positive hat on) something was lost in translation with this one. I did leave some initial classification comments - I plan to action them shortly by introducing more data points and related filters so you can more easily uncover new rums.

Happy New Year from my family to yours, I truly hope it's a fantastic one for each one of you. I look forward to reading your comments on many other future threads, please consider this discussion now closed :)

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